Examples of this woundedness are legion. Catholic Articles. Book Tim Now! Caller: Yeah, it definitely helps. Jimmy Akin explains why the reasons given by sedevacantists for their position are faulty and contrary to the promises of Christ. Sedevacantism comes from the Latin sede vacante, which means "seat vacant. Have there been individual people who are apostates in our age? The Church is bigger today than it has ever been in the past, and so it has more members now than it has ever had in the past. http://www.catholic.com Jimmy Akin is an internationally known author and speaker. This is seen as incompatible with the sedevacantist claim that the true nature of the Catholic Church has been hidden from the world for half a century. While sedevacantism does not per se encompass conspiracy theories, sedevacantists seem prone to following them. We have gathered together several quotes from various writers on the issues of the indefectibility of the Church and the necessity that such an indefectible Church be visible. And I totally understand when you said that since I’m going through the education of the Catholic Church, and even besides going through RCIA I’ve been doing a lot of my own research on the Catholic Church, which is again why I want to join the Catholic Church, I definitely found the truth in it. Does that give you some help? For example, many adhere to the belief that all Popes since Pope Pius XII are "anti-Popes," or that Pope Gregory XVII was a true but suppressed Pope, and that now we have no true Pope. You didn’t have a protest of bishops denouncing the Vatican II documents at the time of Vatican II. I don’t think they are entirely on the wrong track, but I believe there are decent rebuttals to their answers. There is no single thread that ties them all together except their conclusion that what most Catholics today believe to be the authentic Catholic Church is really a counterfeit. So that aspect of the tradition adapted. In the "Foreword" to the book, Fr. Well, whatever else that means, it means there’s not going to be a sudden apostasy of the bishops who were guided by the Holy Spirit, according to Jesus, and by Jesus himself. John P. M. van der Ploeg, O. P., a Doctor and Master of Sacred Theology, responds to those who give up on the Church and cluster into "remnants" waiting for the "true Church" to reemerge: If these people are correct it means that Our Lord Jesus Christ has abandoned His Church, more or less as the glory of God left the temple of Jerusalem according to the famous vision of the prophet Ezechiel (Ez. As the Second Vatican Council taught, the hierarchical society and the Mystical Body form one complex reality. Against sedevacantism, mainstream Catholics advance arguments such as: 1. Enjoying this content? I know you said in the past that they interpret things wrong, but they’re also very convincing, and so I want to come across this logically. Some of the specific positions advocated by various groups of sedevacantists might strike ordinary Catholics as funny, but schism is no laughing matter. What we mean is that these can be recognized to constitute the true Church of Christ; so that, in other words, we can point to a specific society and say of it: "This is Christ's Church." The incredibly strange and non-Catholic Society of Saint Pius V (not the Society of Saint Pius X) is officially sedevacantist. Sedevacantism.  Conspiracies concerning Communism and Jewish Kabbalah are not uncommon either. There are people in every age who apostatize. And if Vatican II had done something that fundamentally betrayed the faith, then number one, the gates of hell would have prevailed against the Church, which Jesus said wouldn’t happen, and number two, there would have been an outcry from the bishops! This article originally appeared on the Traditionalist blog Athanasius Contra Mundum on September 3rd, 2009. Many of the sedevacantist critiques of the current state of the Church are valid. I like Catholic Answers. Click here to learn about the Society of Saint Pius V. O kay, so that’s sedevacantism. It implies that whoever currently holds the office does so in name only. Anything else is a betrayal.”. Sedevacantist premises don’t really prove what they claim. It talks about how the Church will almost pass out of existence, but Christ will return to save it at the last moment. I am not convinced by their answers here. but is a treasure trove of what Catholics need to arm themselves against sedevacantism. In terms of Pope Francis, he’s the pope. Aramaic was the most common language spoken in Palestine at the time, we have indications from the gospels that Jesus regularly spoke Aramaic so the first Mass was probably Aramaic. I have no doubt that the bishops are, as a college, successors of the apostles. It is incompatible with the profession of Catholicism to posit any form of the "true Church" separated from the Catholic hierarchy in communion with the Roman Pontiff. Sedevacantism is the position, held by a minority of traditionalist Catholics, that the alleged present occupant of the Holy See is not truly pope due to the mainstream church's espousal of the heresy of modernism and that, for lack of a valid pope, the see has been … The sedevacantist heresy is the claim that the See of Peter is vacant and that we have no true and visible head of the Church. The sedevacantist heresy is the claim that the See of Peter is vacant and that we have no true and visible head of the Church. Any sacramental rites authorized by the Roman Pontiff must be and are official sacramental rites of the Holy Catholic Church, and, when celebrated faithfully in accordance with the text and rubrics which he has approved, must of necessity give grace, be free from error, and contain nothing intrinsically harmful to the faith. It had already been a tradition, but now it was an infallibly defined one. Originally, even in Rome, it was said in Greek; but over the course of time, Latin was added, and so were other languages. What sedevacantists object to is a Mass being offered “Una Cum” or in union with a Vatican II pope and the local bishop who do not cherish the Catholic and Apostolic Faith as do ‘all orthodox believers and professors of the Catholic and Apostolic Faith,’ … Our Lord constituted His Church as a visible hierarchically governed body founded on the rock of Peter for whom He had prayed that his faith might not fail. Sedevacantism is the position held by some people who identify as Catholic that the present occupier of the Holy See is not truly the pope due to the mainstream church's espousal of what they see as the heresy of modernism and that, for lack of a valid pope, the See has been vacant since the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958 or the death of Pope John XXIII in 1963. So we just don’t see the conditions necessary for The Great Apostasy. The term “great apostasy” is really a theological term that’s based on some passages that indicate there will be a great falling-away from the faith towards the end of the world. Sedevacantism is the theological position of those traditional Catholics who most certainly believe in the papacy, papal infallibility and the primacy of the Roman Pontiff, and yet do not recognize “Pope” Francis [Edit. 2. Apostasy is defined as—and you can read this in the Code of Canon Law, including the 1917 Code of Canon Law, if I recall correctly, it’s certainly in the 83 Code and it’s in the Catechism—apostasy is defined as the total repudiation of the Christian faith. Because this is a…I mean, I don’t discourage people from looking at information and arguments, but there are questions of timing, and while you’re going through this education of yourself in learning about Church teaching and what the Church says, I don’t know that it’s the most prudent time to be reading material that attacks the Church in this way, because they’re going to be distorting. It is not an essential mark of the Church that it be without sin, or even that its Popes all be holy. Sedevacantism is the claim, espoused by certain extreme traditionalist Catholics, that there is currently no valid pope because of a great apostasy by either the pope or the whole Church. And if you’re just learning Church teaching for the first time, you may not want to be exposing yourself to material that has a high risk of distorting things or presenting it in an imbalanced way. Because it has not only the element of continuity, but it also has the element of development that occurs, and you can’t arbitrarily fossilize a certain stage in the Church’s history and say “There can be no departures from this. The Vatican II antipopes are without doubt real heretics. The Catholic response is that to believe this is to believe that Our Lord's promise to be with His Church until the end of time and protect Her from conquest by the Gates of Hell was a lie. Thus the Sedevacantist must maintain that the Church preserves the Four Marks despite lacking a Successor to Peter, while the orthodox Catholic must prove that such a scenario would mean the Marks had been lost. Our Lord did not found a sect but the Catholic, that is, the universal Church. Remember that Sedevacantism, the position that there has been no (known) true Pope of the Catholic Church since the death of Pius XII in 1958, and that the current Vatican establishment is not the Catholic Church, is entirely safe theologically. Similarly, Jesus asks “Will the son of man find faith when he comes back?” So all this and various other indicators suggest that by the end of the world we’re gonna have dramatically diminished in size. I don’t see the “gates of Hell” argument making a lot of sense here. The arguments which conclude to sedevacantist claims are many, varied and complex. The book does just that: it answers the difficult questions based on the sound doctrine of the Church, not by emotion. Since Our Lord cannot lie, sedevacantist claims must be false. They insist frequently—and frankly—on an uncharitable reading of every development, and portray it as if it was an unacceptable development, and they have essentially fossilized a certain stage of development in the history of the Church and said “Any departure from that is an apostasy.” And that’s just a misrepresentation, both of the concept of apostasy and of the way tradition works. Sedevacantism The Vacancy of the Papal Throne since the Death of Pope Pius XII The Chair of St. Peter in Vatican City (image: shutterstock.com) On this page we present a slew of links to articles, blog posts, books, audios, and videos dealing with the subject matter of the Papacy, Sedevacantism, the false theological position known as “recognize-but-resist”,… Sedevacantism is the belief that the See of Rome is vacant - that is, they believe that the Pope is not really the Pope. The Pope may have been elected and accepted by cardinals yet, due to heretical views, is not “truly” the head of the earthly church. The term “great apostasy” does appear in scripture, but it’s used in more than one context. sedevacantism.com sedevacantism.org sedeprivationism.com sedeprivationism.org thechurchofjesuschristdivinephysician.com thechurchofjesuschristdivinephysician.org Sedevacantists end up with an invisible Calvinist Church composed of believers spiritually “subject” to illicitly consecrated bishops of questionable validity, giving no adherence to anyone other than themselves, and (in many cases) possessed of mutual hatred for one another as displayed in their puerile pseudo-apostolic diatribes against each other. You had a little bit of buyer’s remorse afterwards by one bishop—I’m thinking of Marcel Lefebvre— but at the time of the Council, he didn’t you know, shout from the rooftops, “This is all wrong.” He signed the Vatican II documents. The difference is that we are in communion with the visible Church and they are not. But the Church is still the Church. And that’s something the Catholic Church accepts and recognizes, and it’s mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. We’re not gonna be a sixth of mankind and be bigger than we’ve ever been in history. Join us LIVE for Post-Election Special tonight at 6:30 PM ET. So in your opinion, Jimmy, you would say that there are—this is just a clarification for me personally— you would say that there definitely are not any anti-popes, and all of the bishops still have their full succession from the original Church from the beginning, correct? And soon, within a couple of centuries, mass was being said in Latin. The footnote to that last sentence points to The Code of Canon Law, article 1325 in the Old Code, article 751 in the New Code. Jimmy Akin explains why the reasons given by sedevacantists for their position are faulty and contrary to the promises of Christ. 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